Mu kiganiro kirekire yahaye urubuga rwa Kigali Today tariki 28/01/2013, Kabasha yashubije ibibazo yabajijwe na Simon Kamuzinzi, umunyamakuru wa Kigali Today (KT), akaba yaratangiye amusobanuza imvo n’imvano y’ibibazo bafitanye na Leta ya Kongo (DRC).

KT: Imwe mu mbarutso mwavugaga mujya kuva mu ngabo za Leta ya Kongo, mwavuze ko hari abasirikare banyu basabwe kujya gukorera mu ntara ya Equateur bavuye muri Kivu, nyuma ngo baje kwicwa. None mu mishyikirano murimo kugirana na Leta ya Kongo i Kampala, umuhuza Perezida Museveni yabasabye gutanga urutonde rw’amazina y’abo basirikare bishwe, mwiteguye kurutanga, murarufite?

M23: Kugira ngo wumve neza ibibazo dufitanye na Leta ya Kongo, mbere na mbere ipfundo ryabyo ni amoko. M23 itangira, twasabaga Leta kubahiriza amasezerano yari yarasinyanye na CNDP ku itariki ya 23 werurwe 2009, ikaba itarigeze iyakurikiza.

Icyo gihe twasabaga guhagarika imirwano, kurwanya Interahamwe, ndetse no gucyura impunzi zavuye i Masisi, ariko hakabaho igisirikare cyangwa igipolisi abo baturage bahungutse biyumvamo kikababa hafi, kikabarinda.

Twashyize imbere ibyo kurwanya Interahamwe, kubera ko ni zo zihungabanya umutekano wo mu gace abaturage bahunze bavamo. Twe rero ntitwagombaga kuva mu gace ka Kivu tutabanje kuzirwanya kugirango zisubire iwabo mu Rwanda, Abanyekongo bari mu buhungiro batahe.

Ikibabaje ni uko, aho kugirango Leta ya Kongo idufashe, ahubwo yacaga inyuma igaha Interahamwe amakuru y’uko tugiye kubatera. Impunzi ntabwo zari gutahuka kubera icyo kibazo cy’umutekano. Icyo tukibajije Guvernema ya Kongo itangira gufunga bamwe muri twebwe.

Nyuma y’icyo gihe haje kwaduka intambara mu gace kitwa Dungu (mu ntara ya Equateur), Guvernema idusaba abasirikare turabyanga kubera impamvu navuze z’uko tutagombaga gusiga abaturage bacu kandi n’amasezerano abitwemerera, ariko kubera hari ibibazo byinshi, twayihaye batayo imwe.

Abo basirikare bose bagezeyo (muri Equateur) baricwa, bicwa na bagenzi babo bo mu yandi moko (atari Abakongomani bavuga ikinyarwanda), ku mabwiriza ya Guvenema ya Kongo. Dufite umubare n’amazinda, ni abasirikare 145, urwo rutonde turarufite n’ubu twaruha Perezida Museveni.

Abo basirikare bamaze kwicwa, twaravuze tuti reka tubanze tujye ku ruhande, tuve mu gisirikare maze tubaze Perezida Kabila impamvu adukoreye ibi. Aho kugira ngo atwumve, ahubwo yaraduteye, ubwo intambara iratangira kugeza n’ubu.

Ubu hirya no hino mu bihugu bituranye na Kongo huzuye amakambi y’impunzi. Icyo amahanga atibaza, ni impamvu ituma Abakongomani b’abatutsi, ari bo bonyine barimo guhunga, bava mu gihugu cyabo, ese barahunga M23 (kandi ari abana babo)? Barahunga Leta yabo, kuko ntabwo ari twe twakwitera ubuhunzi!

Niyo mpamvu turimo gusaba impande zose, amashyaka yose yo muri Kongo, kuza tukicara hamwe tukiga ku mpamvu ziteza abaturage bamwe b’igihugu guhunga Leta yabo. Tekereza nawe ku mpamvu yatumye Guvernema ya Kongo itarigeze ibaza iby’urupfu rw’Abanyamulenge biciwe mu nkambi mu Gatumba (Burundi).

KT: Ese icyizere mufite cy’uko imishyikirano ya Kampala izatanga ibisubizo bibanogeye, kingana gite?

M23: Amasezerano twasinyanye na Leta ya Kongo amaze kuba menshi cyane, hari ayo mu 2003, 2005, 2007, 2008, 2009, kugeza n’ubu. Ikibazo gihari ni ubushake buke bwa Leta ya Kongo. Turasaba ibihugu duturanye gukomeza kotsa igitutu Leta ya Kongo kumva ikibazo neza.

Intumwa za M23 mu biganiro na Leta ya Congo i Kampala.

Ikibazo kimaze kuba ingutu, ni uko M23 nk’Abanyekongo, ariyo igaragara nk’aho iteza ikibazo mu gihugu cyayo, kurusha imitwe y’amahanga itabarika. FDLR (y’u Rwanda), FNL (y’u Burundi), LRA (ya Uganda), iyo mitwe yose yiyongereye ku yindi y’Abakongomani myinshi, irarwanira ku butaka bwa Kongo nta mpamvu yumvikana ifite yo guteza ibibazo mu gihugu cy’amahanga, ariko M23 niyo yahindutse igicibwa!

KT: Nk’umuntu utazi uko byifashe muri Kivu y’amajyaruguru aho muri, ese intambara muri iki gihe yarahagaze, abantu biteguye kuganira?

M23: Ahaah hahaa! Ntabwo ari ko bimeze, kuko nyuma y’uko dufashe Goma, ibihugu 11 bya ICGLR byadusabye kuhava turabikora, ariko hakaguma Company imwe y’abasirikare ba M23 ku kibuga cy’indege, hamwe na battalion imwe y’ingabo za Kongo.

Nyuma siko byaje kugenda, ahubwo i Goma muri iki gihe huzuye Interahamwe, zirimo kuza bose bareba, umunsi ku wundi, na MONUSCO irabizi. Interahamwe zaraje zivuye mu mahanga yose, MONUSCO yakoze raporo ivuga ko izigera ku 4,000 ziri i Masisi ku birometero 50 uvuye mu mujyi wa Goma, zikaba ziyobowe n’umusirikare w’umu-koroneri wavuye muri Centrafrica.

Izo Nterahamwe zigemurirwa n’indege ebyiri zifite ibara ry’umweru, umuntu yakeka ko ari iza UN, ariko ntabwo ari izayo ahubwo Leta ya Kongo yazisizeho iryo bara, mu rwego rwo kujijisha kuko nta kirango cya UN zifite.

Mai Mai n’Interahamwe ubu zamaze gufata ibindiro byose biri hafi ya Pariki y’ibirunga. Uzi ko ibirindiro by’Interahamwe byahoze Walikale, ariko ubu babyimuriye ahantu hitwa Tongo( kuri pariki y’ibirunga). Pariki nta muntu uyigenzura kugeza ubu, kandi murabizi ko mu minsi ishize zateye mu Rwanda, nta handi zanyuze, ni muri parki.

Ubu ni ubushotoranyi, kandi icyo dutinya ni uko barimo gushotora u Rwanda, bavuga ko rurimo kudufasha. Turibaza tuti ese kuzana Interahamwe hafi y’umupaka w’u Rwanda, ni ukugirango u Rwanda rwinjire mu ntambara noneho?

Birazwi ko ikibazo cyari hagati y’Abanyekongo, ariko Kongo irashaka kwinjiza u Rwanda mu ntambara, ku ngufu. Twebwe ariko turifuza gukemura ibibazo byacu hagati yacu nk’Abanyekongo.

KT: Ese ko umuryango w’abibumbye (UN) wanzuye ko mu burasirazuba bwa Kongo hakoreshwa Drones( indege zitagira abaderevu), nta mpungenge bibateye?

M23: Nta mpungenge dufite, kuko dufite ukuri kwacu, n’ubwo bazana iki, bazatwica, ariko se abana bari mu nkambi hirya no hino bazibagirwa ko iwabo ari muri Kongo? Abo bana bazaza ku neza cyangwa barwana.

Na MONUSCO (ingabo 17,000) ifatanyije n’abasirikare ba FARDC twarabarwanije. Barabizi ko nta mbaraga bafite, niyo mpamvu tubasaba kuza tukicara hamwe tukaganira.

Sitwe kibazo Kongo ifite, ahubwo niba bashaka gufasha Guvernema ya Kongo bakoresheje drones, nibabanze bashake izirwanya ruswa.

KT: Hari ibihuha bivuga ko Col. JMV Kazarama yaba atakibarizwa muri M23, kubera ko atacyumvikana mu itangazamakuru, abandi bakavuga ko yaba yaratorokanye amafaranga menshi, ese nibyo?

M23: Col. Kazarama amaze iminsi mu mishyikirano i Kampala nk’umunyamuryango wa M23, akaba n’umuvugizi w’igisirikare. Ahubwo mu minsi mike tuzamusaba abeshyuze ibyo bihuha bimuvugwaho. Impamvu atarimo kuvuga ubu, ni uko nta mirwano ihari, kandi ntaho ahurira n’umutungo, ku buryo yakwiba amafaranga.

Intumwa za Leta ya Congo ziyobowe na Minisitiri w’Ububanyi n’amahanga.

KT: M23 iravugwa ko ishobora kuba ishaka guca Kongo mo ibice (balkanisation). Icyo wakivugaho iki?

M23: Ibyo nanjye maze igihe mbyumva ko baturega gushaka gufata igice kimwe cya Kongo (Kivu), tukacyomeka ku Rwanda. Igihe cya AFDL (Mobutu Seseko ava ku butegetsi), ni uko bavugaga, igihe cya RCD (Kabila-Pere ava ku butegetsi) nabwo ni uko bavugaga, CNDP nayo ni uko bavuze, natwe ni uko barimo kuvuga.

Gusa ikibazo gihari, hari icyo bita centralism (ubuyobozi na service bitegereye abaturage). Kubona umuntu ushaka pass-port akarinda gufata indege akajya i Kinshasa, ategesheje amadolari y’Amerika 900, utekereza ko ari buri Mukongomani wabona ayo mafaranga? Ni bangahe se bayabona?

Niyo mpamvu tuvuga ko Federalism (za Leta zishyize hamwe ku buryo ubuyobozi bwegera abaturage), ari bwo buryo bwonyine bwo gufasha Kongo. Turasaba rero ko ubu buryo bwakoreshwa, kuko mu myaka 50 Kongo imaze ibonye ubwigenge, ubuyobozi bwabayeho bwagiye buyobora nabi.

Gusa hari n’ikibazo cyo kutagira nationalism (aho abaturage baba batuye ku butaka bumwe, bahuje ururimi, imico n’imigenzo) hamwe na patriotism (kwiyumva ko igihugu ari icyawe, ukagikundira abagituye n’umutungo ukirimo).

Twebwe dufite ikibazo, kuko abazungu bajya guca Africa mo ibihugu, ntabwo bigeze batubaza igihugu tugomba kubarizwamo hakurikijwe ko dusangiye isano, ururimi, amateka, n’ibindi. Muri Kongo rero dufite ikibazo cy’ubushake bwo kubaka igihugu kimwe, kuko twari dutandukaniye kuri byinshi cyane. Ntabwo igihugu ari ubutaka gusa.

Ntabwo intego dufite ari Balkanisation, nk’uko bavuga, ahubwo turashaka kwicara hamwe, tukareba ibyo duhuriyeho kandi bimaze kuba byinshi cyane, duhereye ku mateka y’igitugu twayoboranywe ku bwa Mobutu, kuko icyo gihe nta bibazo by’amoko twari dufite, turifuza guhurira hamwe twese nk’Abanyekongo baba mu gihugu n’abari hanze yacyo, tukemeranywa ku cyerekezo twaha igihugu cyacu. Ibyo kandi birashoboka.

KT: Urakoze, Bwana Kabasha!

M23: Urakoze nawe!