Mu kiganiro cyihariye yahaye Jeune Afrique, Perezida Kagame yabwiye Kinshasa, Washington n’umuryango mpuzamahanga ko bagomba gukora inshingano zabo.

Umunyamakuru Francois Soudan yandika iyi nkuru, yabanje kwibutsa umunsi wa nyuma w’aya masezerano uko wagenze.

Hari Tariki ya 4 Ukuboza 2025, mu cyumba cy’Ibiro bya Perezida wa Amerika i Washington. Monica Crowley, umuyobozi w’ishami ry’umutekano, yakiriye ba Perezida b’u Rwanda na Repubulika Iharanira Demokarasi ya Kongo (RDC) bategereje kwinjizwa mu biro bya Ovale, gusinya « amasezerano y’amahoro n’ubufatanye mu karere ». Hari intebe imwe aho aba bategetsi bagombaga kwicara no kuganirira, n’intebe zigera kuri esheshatu ku bagize intumwa zabo.

Félix Tshisekedi yaje mbere aricara, Paul Kagame yinjiye mu cyumba maze aramuramutsa, ariko Tshisekedi amusubiza atiriwe anamureba.

Abonye Perezida Kagame nta ntebe afite, Minisitiri w’Ububanyi n’Amahanga w’u Rwanda, Olivier Nduhungirehe yaramwimukiye, ariko Perezida Kagame arabyanga arakomeza arihagararira.

Francois Soudan avuga ko nyuma y’amezi ane y’isinywa ry’ayo masezerano, ubukonje bukabije hagati y’aba bayobozi ntibwahindutse, habe na gato.

Nk’uko ibintu bihagaze mu burasirazuba bwa RDC, aho intambara ikomeje hagati y’ingabo za Kongo na AFC/M23, ku rugamba rw’abarashisha intwaro barwanira ku butaka, ubu ngo hiyongereyeho urugamba rw’indege zidafite abapilote (drones), kandi kuva Leta Zunze Ubumwe za Amerika zihana ingabo z’u Rwanda ku itariki ya 2 Werurwe, u Rwanda rwakomeje kuvuga ko uruhande rwa Donald Trump rushobora kuba ruyobowe n’inyungu z’ubucuruzi.

Dore ikiganiro Jeune Afrique yagiranye na Perezida Kagame muri Village Urugwiro mu kwezi gushize:

Jeune Afrique: Kuva mu minsi ishize, u Rwanda ruri ku ihurizo ry’ibihano, igitutu n’ibitekerezo bikaze ku bijyanye na politiki yarwo mu karere. Ntimutekereza ko baba bashaka kubashyira mu kato ka Dipolomasi mpuzamahanga?

Paul Kagame: Mbere yo gusubiza ikibazo cyawe no gukosora uko ubibona, ndashaka kongera kuvuga ibyo nsigira abifuza kubyumva: amakimbirane mu burasirazuba bwa RDC si ikibazo cy’u Rwanda.

Mu buryo bumwe cyangwa ubundi, u Rwanda rurebwa n’iki kibazo, cyane cyane ku kibazo kitarakemuka cy’abicanyi ba FDLR [Forces démocratiques de libération du Rwanda]. Ni ikibazo buri wese azi, kimaze imyaka mirongo itatu, ariko nta muntu wigeze gushaka igisubizo nyacyo. Kunanirwa kw’Ingabo z’Umuryango w’Abibumbye zoherejwe muri Congo - MONUSCO, ari na yo misiyo nini cyane yabayeho ku isi, ikaba yarananiwe kuvanaho FDLR, ni ikintu kigaragara.

FDLR ni ikibazo ku Rwanda kuko ikorera mu gihugu cy’umuturanyi, RDC, bafashijwe n’ubutegetsi bw’icyo gihugu. Ntibateye ikibazo ku Rwanda gusa, ahubwo no ku baturanyi bacyo. Twe turirinda gusa, kandi ibihano uvuga twafatiwe ni nko guhanagura ibyaha byabaye ku bahohotewe ahubwo ugashyigikira ababikoze. Gushyira ibihano byose ku Rwanda biroroshye kurusha gushaka igisubizo nyacyo kuri iki kibazo.

Jeune Afrique: Ku itariki ya 2 Werurwe, ubuyobozi bwa Trump bwafatiye ibihano ingabo z’u Rwanda n’abasirikare bane babo kubera inkunga baha M23, kandi busaba ko ingabo zanyu zose zikurwa mu burasirazuba bwa RDC. Ese mufite gahunda yo kubikurikiza?

Paul Kagame: Mbere na mbere, banza wumve uwo tuvugaho. M23 si umutwe w’u Rwanda, ahubwo ni umutwe w’Abanyekongo waje kwitwa AFC/M23, ukaba unabarizwamo uwahoze ari Perezida Joseph Kabila. Iki kibazo ni icya politiki y’Abanyekongo, kigomba kubona igisubizo cya politiki y’Abanyekongo.

Ngarutse ku kibazo cyawe, ntushobora kwitega ko uruhande rumwe, u Rwanda, ruzuzuza inshingano zose ziri mu masezerano ya Washington yo ku itariki ya 4 Ukuboza, mugihe undi, RDC, atari bwuzuze cyangwa akora bike cyane. Igihugu cya Amerika, cyatwunze, kigomba gukurikirana ko Congo n’u Rwanda byombi bigenda mu cyerekezo cyiza. Ntigomba kugaragaza ko ishyira igitutu ku ruhande rumwe, mu gihe ifata undi mu buryo bworoshye, ku mpamvu ntashaka gutanga ibisobanuro.

Jeune Afrique: Gufata Uvira ku itariki ya 10 Ukuboza, iminsi itandatu nyuma y’amasezerano ya Washington, haba ari ho haturutse igitutu cya Amerika, ubutegetsi bwa Trump bugahera aho bubafatira ibihano? Ubyumva gute?

Paul Kagame: Oya. Ni ibindi. Bashakaga kwemeza abantu ko hari isano hagati yo gufatwa kwa Uvira n’amasezerano ya Washington, kandi ko gufatwa kwa Uvira kwari uburyo bwo kwanga ayo masezerano. Ibyo si ukuri na gato. Intambara zabaye igihe kirekire mbere y’amasezerano ya Washington. Igihugu cya Amerika cyari kimenyereye uko ibintu byifashe buri munsi. Amasezerano ya Washington asinywa, cyangwa n’iyo adasinywa, gufatwa kwa Uvira byari ngombwa. Abari bafite aho bahuriye n’amasezerano ya Washington bari babizi.

Jeune Afrique: Ku itariki ya 22 Mutarama, ambasaderi wanyu muri Washington yavuze ko u Rwanda rufite « ubufatanye mu mutekano na AFC/M23 », abantu benshi babyumvise nk’aho ingabo z’u Rwanda ziri ku butaka bw’Uburasirazuba bwa RDC. Murabyemera?

Paul Kagame: Yego, birumvikana. Ingamba z’ubwirinzi ni ukuvuga kurinda igihugu cyacu n’imipaka yacu ku bidutera akaga, harimo gukoresha ibikoresho bya gisirikare, kohereza ingabo ku butaka cyangwa ibindi. Nta gihabanye. Niba zirinze umupaka wacu kandi bisaba guhangana n’ikibazo kuri kilometero 5, 10 cyangwa 20 inyuma, ni ingamba z’ubwirinzi. Kandi reka duhagarike kureba ku ruhande rumwe. Kuki tuvuga gusa ku Rwanda, mu gihe dufite indi guverinoma ikorana na FDLR kandi nta cyo isabwa? Ntimutegereze ko nzakuraho ingamba zacu mugihe mutagira icyo mukora ngo mukumire ibyo bidutera akaga.

Jeune Afrique: Ese habaho kumvikana niba buri ruhande, RDC n’u Rwanda, rukora ibirureba?

Paul Kagame: Ubwo bwumvikane buri mu masezerano ya Washington no mu yandi menshi mbere, RDC ntiyigeze iyubahiriza!

Jeune Afrique: Mukomeza kuvuga ko ingabo za RDC zikorana na FDLR. Mubizi gute kandi muravuga ngo FDLR bafite abantu bangahe?

Paul Kagame: Ubufatanye burakomeje. Ku bijyanye n’umubare, si cyo kintu cy’ingenzi. Baba ari magana cyangwa ibihumbi, icyo bategura n’icyo baharanira, icyerekezo cyabo n’ubufasha bahawe na Guverinoma ya RDC ni cyo kibazo gikomeye. Urebye gusa ku mubare, waba wirengagije icy’ingenzi. Nta tandukaniro ry’umubare hagati ya FDLR n’ADF [Allied Democratic Forces], abakomoka ku itsinda rya Leta ya Kiisilamu intambara yo muri Uganda irimo imyaka myinshi ku butaka bwa RDC, ku bwumvikane na Tshisekedi.

Paul Kagame: Mu gihe guverinoma ya Kongo yagaragaje ubushake bwo guhagarika ibikorwa bya FDLR, ibisubizo bigeze he?

Mu turere M23 ifite, ikora neza mu guhangana n’aba bagizi ba nabi, ariko mu turere twa Masisi, Walikale n’ahandi FARDC zikora, FDLR ziracyariho mu bufatanye na guverinoma. Ibyo bishimishije si amagambo, ahubwo ni ukuri kw’ibigaragara.

Jeune Afrique:Urugendo rwa vuba rwa Jean-Luc Habyarimana i Kinshasa, umwe mu bana b’umuhungu wa Perezida Juvénal Habyarimana kandi ukunze kunenga ubutegetsi bwanyu, rwateje ikibazo muri guverinoma yanyu. Ariko, ni umuntu uri wenyine ugereranyije. Kuki habayeho icyo kibazo?

Paul Kagame: Niba umwana wa Habyarimana atangira kubona inkunga ya Tshisekedi, ubutunzi bw’Igihugu cya Kongo n’amasoko yayo, twavuga dute ko ari wenyine? Tshisekedi aragerageza kumukoresha mu gukurura abantu ku ruhande rwa FDLR no kubaka inkunga ye mu Bufaransa n’ahandi.

Jeune Afrique: Kuva M23 yafata Goma muri Mutarama 2025, kenshi bavuze ko yica uburenganzira bwa muntu kandi igashyira abantu mu gisirikare ku ngufu. Mubona ko uyu mutwe ushoboye neza gucunga uturere ugenzura kurusha guverinoma ya Kongo?

Paul Kagame: Nakwemera icyo kirego uramutse umbwiye ko i Goma hari amahoro kurusha mbere y’uko M23 ihajya. Ubu ibintu bimeze neza kuruta mbere. Buri wese ashobora kugereranya: Goma na Bukavu bimeze neza.

Jeune Afrique: Ese umupaka wanyu ubu urizewe kurusha mbere kubera AFC/M23?

Paul Kagame: Yego, nta gushidikanya. Ku byerekeye umutekano, ni ukuri. Umupaka wose hamwe na RDC urizewe.

Jeune Afrique: Intambara mu burasirazuba yari isaznwe ari intambara y’abarwanira ku butaka. Ubu ikoreshwamo indege zidafite abapilote (drones). Ibi birababaje?

Paul Kagame: Igihangayikishije cyane mbere ya byose, ni uko amakimbirane akomeje. Kandi icyo nkeka ko gikwiye kuturaza ishinga twese, ni ukumenya uko twarangiza ayo makimbirane. Naho bitabaye ibyo, izindi ntwaro, zishobora no kurushaho kuba mbi kurusha drones, zishobora kugaragara.

Jeune Afrique: Mu gihe amahoro yagaruka, ni nde ukwiye gucunga M23?

Paul Kagame: Sinzi, kandi sinabyitaho cyane. Siyo nshingano yanjye. Icyo nshaka ni uko uwacunga aka karere, uwo ari we wese, ataba ikibazo kuri twe kandi tugashobora kubana mu mahoro. Nta kindi.

Kuri ubu, akarere gagenzurwa na M23 ntikakigira ibibazo. Ukuri ni uko ibintu biri Goma na Bukavu byifashe neza kurusha mbere. Birumvikana, ibyo ntibivuze ko ibintu byarangiye. Haracyari byinshi byo gukora, haba mu Burasirazuba no muri Kongo yose, kugira ngo buri ruhande ntirubere abandi ikibazo, by’umwihariko ku Rwanda. Niyo mpamvu tutazatezuka mu bijyanye n’umutekano w’umupaka wacu. Ku buryo bwose bushoboka.

Jeune Afrique: Kuba Joseph Kabila ari i Goma bivuze ko wamuhaye uburenganzira kandi ko umushyigikiye?

Paul Kagame: Buri wese ushaka kugira uruhare mu rugamba rwo kugira Kongo ihamye akwiye kwakirwa. Kabila yahisemo ibyo akora. Uzi ibibazo bye. Leta ya Kongo yaramukurikiranye, yahanishijwe igihano cy’urupfu, igice cy’imitungo ye kirafatwa, kandi arashaka guhangana n’ibyo bibazo ari mu gihugu cye bwite. Simbona impamvu yo kumubuza inzira. Byaba bidafite ishingiro.

Jeaune Afrique: Uburyo u Rwanda rwubaka iterambere bushingiye mu buryo bumwe ku isura nziza y’ubuyobozi bwarwo mu by’ubukungu. Ese ibihano by’Amerika n’iby’Uburayi ntibishobora kuyisenya?

Paul Kagame: Isura nziza ntabwo ishingira ku bitekerezo bifite ubusumbane, ahubwo ishingira ku kuri. Nakora iki ngo nkomeze kuba mfite isura nziza? Ese nakwicara ngo ntakora icyo nshoboye imbere y’ibyo bishobora guteza akaga ku nkingi z’iyo sura nziza? Ese nakwihitiramo gukomeza kuba mfite isura nziza ntirwanirira? Oya. Guhitamo biragoye, ariko birasobanutse.

Izina ryiza ntirishingira ku bitekerezo bibogamye, ahubwo rishingira ku kuri. Nakora iki kugira ngo nzagume mfite izina ryiza? Nakomeza nkicara ntagira icyo nkora imbere y’ibyabangamira imizi y’iryo zina? Muri icyo gihe, mwibaze, ese nazagumana izina ryiza? Ese nakwihitiramo kurengera izina ryacu kugira ngo ntahabwa ibihano? Oya. Umwanzuro ntiworoshye gufata, ariko uragaragara neza

Jeune Afrique: Ese ntimutekereza ko ibi bihano bishobora kwiyongera, nk’uko Leta ya Kongo ibisaba, bikagera ku bigo bya Leta y’u Rwanda, nka Crystal Ventures, cyangwa ku ishyaka riri ku butegetsi?

Simbizi. RDC niyo itera ibibazo byose tuvuga, ariko abo bafata ibyemezo byo gushyiraho ibyo bihano babikora bagendeye ku byo bashaka n’inyungu zabo bwite. Gushyiraho ibihano ntibivuze ko zifite ishingiro. Bakwimika ibyo bihano kuko utajyanye n’inyungu z’ababishyiraho. Ikintu kimwe ni cyo kizwi neza: ntimuzantegerezeho gusaba imbabazi cyangwa kwemera ibihano bidafite ishingiro.

Jeune Afrique: U Rwanda rwakwihanganira guhagarikwa kw’amafaranga y’ubufasha mpuzamahanga?

Paul Kagame: Twahuye n’imbogamizi nyinshi cyane! U Rwanda rwari igihugu cyapfuye, igihugu kitariho. Ariko noneho kirahari. Twabashije kurokoka ibitari gushoboka ku kindi gihugu icyo ari cyo cyose."

Jeune Afrique: Ubuhuza bw’Abanyafurika bukurikirana imyaka myinshi ariko ntibwabashije gukemura amakimbirane yo mu burasirazuba bwa Kongo. Ni iki gituma uyu mugabane utabasha guhangana n’iki kibazo?

Paul Kagame: Sinzi. Hari ibintu ijana Afurika ihanganye nabyo kandi itabasha kubikemura, harimo n’iki. Ibibazo byinshi duhura nabyo tubyitera ubwacu, kandi n’iyo dushoboye kubirangiza, ntitubimenya. Cyangwa se, dukora ibyo tudakwiye gukora.

Jeune Afrique: Ese intego yanyu ni ukugira u Rwanda icyicaro nyamukuru mu gutunganya amabuye y’agaciro yo mu burasirazuba bwa RDC, nk’uko akenshi tubyumva mu byo muregwa?

Paul Kagame: U Rwanda rumaze kuba icyicaro nyamukuru ku bintu bitandukanye, by’umwihariko mu by’imari. None se kuba ushaka kuba icyicaro nyamukuru mu karere mu by’amabuye y’agaciro byaba ikibazo ki? Ese ibyo biba ikirego gute? Batubwira bati: “Muri muri RDC kubera ko mushaka amabuye yabo y’agaciro.” Ariko ku rundi ruhande, twe ubwacu dufite amabuye y’agaciro mu Rwanda. Kandi ku rundi ruhande, yego, twakira amabuye y’agaciro aturuka hanze y’igihugu twishimye. Hari amabuye aturuka mu Congo akanyura mu Rwanda mbere yo kujya i Dubai, mu Bufaransa, mu Bubiligi, muri Hong Kong cyangwa ahandi. None se kuki bigarukira ku Rwanda gusa?

Turagira uruhare rwuzuye mu gikorwa cyo kumenya inkomoko y’ayo mabuye. Dushobora gusobanura ibijyanye n’ibinyura hano cyangwa bisigara hano byose. Dushobora kugaragaza inyandiko zibihamya. Ariko bisa n’aho abantu bahitamo gukomeza gukwirakwiza ibyo birego by’ibinyoma.

Jeune Afrique: Ingabo z’u Rwanda muri Cabo Delgado zizagira ikibazo niba ubufasha bwa EU buhagaze?

Paul Kagame: Twagiye gufasha Mozambique imyaka hafi itanu ishize, ibintu byaguye bigenda neza. Ariko ntibikwiye ko twishyura ku bw’akazi twakoze. Niba nta wundi ufata ikiguzi, twiteguye kugaruka igihe cyose.

Jeune Afrique: Ingabo zanyu ziri kandi mu bikorwa by’Umuryango w’Abibumbye muri Centrafrique no muri Sudani y’Epfo. Ese muhangana n’ibibazo bisa n’ibyo mu Mozambique?

Paul Kagame: Oya. Ariko na ho, nidusanga kuhaba kwacu bidakenewe, yaba ku gihugu dukorera cyangwa ku Muryango w’Abibumbye, tuzavayo. Ni ibyo nta kindi.

Jeune Afrique: Mu Ugushyingo gutaha hazaba amatora yo guhitamo Umunyamabanga Mukuru wa Francophonie (OIF). Mufite umukandida wanyu, Louise Mushikiwabo, naho Félix Tshisekedi afite Juliana Lumumba. Ese ntimutinya ko aya matora ashobora kwangizwa n’amakimbirane hagati y’ibihugu byanyu byombi?

Paul Kagame: Ndakeka ko bishoboka, yego. Ariko umuntu uzatorwa, nta yandi mahitamo. Nabonye ko Tshisekedi ashyigikiye umukandida we, kandi ni uburenganzira bwe. Ashobora no gutanga abakandida babiri niba abishaka. Ibyo ntacyo bindebaho na gato.

Jeune Afrique: Murabona bishoboka ko mwakumvikana na Tshisekedi?

Paul Kagame: Yego cyangwa oya. Nta kibazo na kimwe mfite cyo gutegereza ko bizaba, cyangwa ngo nemeze ko bitazigera bibaho. Ndumva nzi neza uko ibintu bihagaze ubu.

Jeune Afrique: Tugeze mu bihe isi iri kurushaho kuba nk’inyeshyamba, nta mategeko akurikizwa, aho ibitekerezo by’umuryango mpuzamahanga n’amategeko mpuzamahanga bikomeza gusuzugurwa, bikabererekera inyungu z’abakomeye na ba mpatsibihugu. Afurika ishobora ite guhangana n’aka kaduruvayo gashya k’isi?

Paul Kagame: Ni ikibazo. Uyu munsi Afurika ihanganye n’imbogamizi zisa n’izari ho mu gice cy’ikinyejana gishize, kandi nyamara zagombaga kuba zaririnzwe kuva kera. Kwishyira hamwe, gukorera hamwe, gushora mu bushobozi bwayo bwite, guteza imbere umutungo w’abantu bayo, no kutongera kwishingikiriza ku bandi. Mu gukurikiza amasomo yo mu Burengeraziuba bw’isi, yadutegetse uko tugomba kwitwara, twubatse ku musenyi kuko tubona neza ko ibyo bihugu bikora ibinyuranye n’ibyo bidutegeka. Baduhamiriza demokarasi n’uburenganzira bwa muntu, ariko bo bakayica mu izina ry’indangagaciro rusange bavuga ko zihari, kandi ubukene bateje abandi bukagarukira kuri bo ubwabo. Ku rundi ruhande, kuba tudashobora kwigira ku makosa yacu, tugakomeza kwitega byose ku bandi ni iyobera ntazi uko nasobanura.

Jeune Afrique: Mu kwezi kwa Kamena gushize, ntimwagaragaye mu gihe cy’ibyumweru bitatu, maze havuka ibihuha byinshi ku buzima bwanyu, ku buryo byabaye ngombwa ko guverinoma yanyu isohora itangazo risobanura uko bimeze. Ese mwumva impamvu yo gushyira ibintu mu mucyo?

Paul Kagame: Kuki ibyumweru bitatu byo kuruhuka ndi kumwe n’abuzukuru banjye byafatwa nk’igihe kirenze urugero? Nari no gufata ukwezi. Birashoboka ko abantu batari babimenyereye. Ariko hari icyo nababwira: mufate urugero rw’abantu ijana bafite imyaka ingana n’iyanjye, mu Bufaransa, muri Leta Zunze Ubumwe za Amerika, mu Bwongereza cyangwa ahandi, munashyiremo nanjye muri abo, hanyuma mugereranye uko ubuzima bwa buri wese buhagaze, muzabona ko ndi mu icumi ba mbere. Ibyo byakabaye bitanga ituze. Sinzi uko bizaba ejo, mu myaka itanu cyangwa icumi iri imbere. Ariko ubu, yego, meze neza.